The Latest Guru Undressing (My Thoughts)
Last Update: May 16, 2012
Scamworld: 'Get rich quick' schemes mutate into an online monster
If you have 20 minutes or so to read the lengthy article, I suggest you may want to do so. It will put a lot of things into perspective that Carson and I have known for quite some time but have not been overly vocal about it.
We had no reason to be. We were running OUR business in a way that we thought was the right way, one that was built on ethics and built on the principles that we developed through our early childhoods and that carried over into business.
Our perspective has always been that EVERYONE is a person...not a customer. In order for us to succeed we figured, we had to help others.
In a nutshell, that has been our mission over the last 7 years with Wealthy Affiliate and it is the reason why we are the "last business standing". There is no product or service within the Internet Business education vertical that has sustained as long.
Yes, there are figureheads. Gurus.
People that are well respected out there as "sources" of knowledge.
Membership sites have come and gone quickly. Make money products have come and gone even quicker. Scheming has never been at a higher level than it is at today within the "Internet Marketing" world.
This I truly believe is out of desperation. Many "marketers" were unable to evolve with the quick shifts that have taken place on the Internet. No more selling scams on Google Adwords. A lot less reliability in partnerships and joint ventures as their clout is limited these days. And at the core, most gurus that you have come to know and follow have little to no business.
This is not intended to be an assault on the entire industry, there are some great people out there doing great things. It is an assault on things that I know have been going on for quite some time and that I have been subtle about presenting to people.
My Recent Rants
Some of my latest articles that I posted on Street Articles have covered topics related to some of the biggest faults in the industry.
These are to the point and have gotten a lot of feedback, so if you get a chance please take a minute to read these.
- The Joint Venture "Circle"
- Overpriced BOGUS Content
- Customers Being Treated Like a Piece of Meat
- The Redistributed Content Sham
Frankly, I personally have reached my tipping point (far different than breaking point) with things that are going on in the "make money" niche.
People are being lied to. People are being told success of extraordinary proportions is possible overnight...and any hard work, dedication, goal setting, and education has been completely left out of the "business" picture.
Carson and I are fighting an uphill battle...
Not in business, but rather in our efforts to protect people from THE "make money" business. This has been very frustrating for us along the way and I can tell you that it is almost a daily conversational point that we have.
We have always aimed to be the good guys of the industry, but people tend to relate us to the industry itself as outsiders, which makes our job more difficult when we finally do get to communicate and come into contact with people we truly feel that we can help, that the community here can help, and that can truly change their life for the better.
Voiceless no more. We are going to tell it like it is. We are still going to focus on making this the best platform for getting an Internet Business education but we are going to also be vocal and forward about things that are taking place that we don't agree with.
From an ethics standpoint....from a people standpoint...from an honesty standpoint.
At the end of the day you only have one thing and that is your brand. At some point you need to consider your personal legacy and we have been working for the last year to create one that is positive for people that we have been able to connect with. The future looks positive and we are excited about the years ahead within the INTERNET, I just had to get this off of my chest.
We are real people just like you and we will continue to prove our realness with our empathetic, compassionate and ethical approach to business.
Thanks for your time folks. Any feedback or questions do post them below.
Join the Discussion
fishing
Premium
Scams are meant for people that want and need, as I have also fallen for a complete farce it was not internet related but a scam never the less.
My point is con men attack the vulnerable, because the vulnerable are also easly taken, they need and want there problem to be taken care of and the avenue that has been presented infront of them by a con man, makes sense and you believe it will work, you sign up.
The con man has done his job if it is on the internet or brick and motor businesses. He has signed you up, you payed, you belileved in their words and were willing to work hard at the program, only to be dissapointed in the end.
WA has been the most positive IM learning format that I have ever been associated with. I still have people phoneing me from past things I have looked into, promising the world, yeah right.
The direction my life can take with is knowledge is what I have been looking for, for a long time now. I put my faith in WA to not just take my money and run, but the complete opposite to teach and inform.
Come for the education, and stay for the carreer....
My point is con men attack the vulnerable, because the vulnerable are also easly taken, they need and want there problem to be taken care of and the avenue that has been presented infront of them by a con man, makes sense and you believe it will work, you sign up.
The con man has done his job if it is on the internet or brick and motor businesses. He has signed you up, you payed, you belileved in their words and were willing to work hard at the program, only to be dissapointed in the end.
WA has been the most positive IM learning format that I have ever been associated with. I still have people phoneing me from past things I have looked into, promising the world, yeah right.
The direction my life can take with is knowledge is what I have been looking for, for a long time now. I put my faith in WA to not just take my money and run, but the complete opposite to teach and inform.
Come for the education, and stay for the carreer....
kyle
Premium Plus
Great quote...come for the education, stay for the career, I like it!
Our goal will to continue to teach and inform and to keep current with the Internet trends, something that the OEP platform has allowed everyone to do in a way that was never once possible. :)
Thanks for your feedback!
Our goal will to continue to teach and inform and to keep current with the Internet trends, something that the OEP platform has allowed everyone to do in a way that was never once possible. :)
Thanks for your feedback!
sherbet penny
Premium
Fascinating reads, all of them, even the reply by Miranda Miller. The original article does have a point, and with the amount of emails I get from 'The Best in the IM Business' people out there (a lot I haven't even signed up too) the rubbish they try sell me is laughable and always a wtf!! moment, are you kidding me, do I look like a mug?
But, unfortunately there are a lot of mugs out there, easily convinced, credit card in hand (though I do not understand this) and as I promote WA I have to be wary not to sound like these assholes and speak from the heart and experience.
I will always speak about WA, as I'm now a member over 2 years and highly respect what you guys do but can see it is getting harder and harder to convince people they can be successful online since a lot have been bitten like BIS below and are very wary and rightly cagey.
Unfortunately as the amount of people logging on to the net grows, there will always be leeches out there grabbing on and giving regular Joe's like ourselves a tainted bad name.
But, unfortunately there are a lot of mugs out there, easily convinced, credit card in hand (though I do not understand this) and as I promote WA I have to be wary not to sound like these assholes and speak from the heart and experience.
I will always speak about WA, as I'm now a member over 2 years and highly respect what you guys do but can see it is getting harder and harder to convince people they can be successful online since a lot have been bitten like BIS below and are very wary and rightly cagey.
Unfortunately as the amount of people logging on to the net grows, there will always be leeches out there grabbing on and giving regular Joe's like ourselves a tainted bad name.
BIS
Premium
Okay - I am 'one of the mugs'. You'd be suprised they come in all shapes and sizes and even though I'd worked in a senior post, been responsible for large amount of managers and staff and had overall responsibility for a huge budget and think of myself as an intelligent person - I still got caught. Greed had nothing to do with it. Desparation and fear did. Be thankful if you don't understand why people do it. Now at least I have the opportunity to help other people stop making the same mistake.
sherbet penny
Premium
Nothing personal BIS, I'm just horrified that this can happen and that some dirtbag can sleep at night peacefully knowing that they are taking money easily of vulnerable people, which to me is a criminal and sentencing offence.
kyle
Premium Plus
Yeah, we cannot let this push us away from the actual opportunity and distract us from our own vision. Collectively, there is a lot that can be accomplished. There are a lot (actually an UNBELIEVABLE) amount of opportunities that reside on the Internet and we will continue working to uncover these in an ethical way.
The Internet is good, there are just some bad apples that take advantage of the medium to make money at any cost. The same goes for any niche, from banking to restaurants.
The Internet is good, there are just some bad apples that take advantage of the medium to make money at any cost. The same goes for any niche, from banking to restaurants.
BIS
Premium
Hi Kyle - I went and read the 'Scamworld blog'. You're right - it is lengthy but well worth a read. Having been caught by the 'gurus' it made me feel quite sick and if I could kick some of these people where it hurts I would.
However, one of the things I have realised is that it is so easy to get caught and it's a shame that the energy they obviously put into conning some of us wasn't put to better use - but unfortunately the world ethical means very different things to some people.
When I first joined WA - in 2010 - I started the first training item and the first task was to email friends and family and tell them what I was doing. I took absolute fright at this - thought I can't do it and hardly came back in for about 15 months!!
Ridiculous when you think about three months later I got caught by a guru with a phone call - which cost me £18,000 - (sterling) promising the world and offering to hold my hand. Training materials mediocre - support absolute crap and I taught my support person who phoned me more than he taught me!! Never, ever again.
I know on occasion you and I have got each other's back up - I blame that on the limitations of written communication, cultural differences, the fact that we're both passionate about things we think are important and the fact that I am now officially a cranky old woman - with diminishing capabilities who is probably old enough to be your mother and gets irritated by a clever know all!! Ha Ha.
But the one thing I shall always be grateful for is that you and Carson have never ever promised the world through WA. You give a helping hand to people who want to find their own world!
So you're not getting rid of me just yet!
Thank you
However, one of the things I have realised is that it is so easy to get caught and it's a shame that the energy they obviously put into conning some of us wasn't put to better use - but unfortunately the world ethical means very different things to some people.
When I first joined WA - in 2010 - I started the first training item and the first task was to email friends and family and tell them what I was doing. I took absolute fright at this - thought I can't do it and hardly came back in for about 15 months!!
Ridiculous when you think about three months later I got caught by a guru with a phone call - which cost me £18,000 - (sterling) promising the world and offering to hold my hand. Training materials mediocre - support absolute crap and I taught my support person who phoned me more than he taught me!! Never, ever again.
I know on occasion you and I have got each other's back up - I blame that on the limitations of written communication, cultural differences, the fact that we're both passionate about things we think are important and the fact that I am now officially a cranky old woman - with diminishing capabilities who is probably old enough to be your mother and gets irritated by a clever know all!! Ha Ha.
But the one thing I shall always be grateful for is that you and Carson have never ever promised the world through WA. You give a helping hand to people who want to find their own world!
So you're not getting rid of me just yet!
Thank you
kyle
Premium Plus
I don't think we really had any indifferences to be honest, as you said I think it comes down to passion. With your back story and the problems you have had with scams in the past (as have many), people tend to make assumptions as to what we are about without actually knowing.
The only way we can show people what we are about is through our actions. Our continual improvements to the community, our continual focus on member success, and our focus on providing an ethical and honest service...all things that I believe we are accomplishing.
I can see how the email thing in the first 5 days could have thrown you off, but this used to be done to get people to take action. This subtle action often lead people to take more action which you and I know is the core fundamentals of not only success, but getting an education.
I am glad you have remained such an active part of the community Beverley and I look forward to working with you for some time to come! :)
The only way we can show people what we are about is through our actions. Our continual improvements to the community, our continual focus on member success, and our focus on providing an ethical and honest service...all things that I believe we are accomplishing.
I can see how the email thing in the first 5 days could have thrown you off, but this used to be done to get people to take action. This subtle action often lead people to take more action which you and I know is the core fundamentals of not only success, but getting an education.
I am glad you have remained such an active part of the community Beverley and I look forward to working with you for some time to come! :)
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
I really like the approach towards people (person vs customer designation) Seeing one's "following" as a customer base is cold and impersonal. I've always been of the mind to help and not so much any other way, and acclaim the thoughts here!
The Customer gets service. The Person gets friendship. There's a difference between helping and serving, though much of the marketing world save a few do not differentiate between the two and refer to them interchangeably. Not so!
Only from the best do we get such advice. Mark Joyner (one of my favorite authors) says the same thing in the Simpleology courses (and elsewhere about this exact thing.
James Straw says the same thing.
Steve Little, Sam Crowley, John Cummuta, Kevin Riley, Dave Ramsey...all multi millionaires will tell you the exact same thing.
They unanimously offer their programs holistically...I perhaps twist the usage of this term a bit to express the philosophy that people are not really customers, but people. We are supposed to be a family, and in these entities, one is treated as such.
The result: a wildly adherent following that will defend the causes of the "thought leader."
Another thing I like about this approach:
These excellent leaders know to positively influence whereas looking at one's clients as "customers" usually implies having to use persuasion techniques.
Influence is far more powerful than persuasion.
In the first, there the followers are behind the leader in every way and the best of relationships in marketing it can be.
The second do not enjoy timely existence as do the first.
I definitely choose K&C's method of madness here. The proof is in the pudding.
Though I, myself, have not succeeded in anything marketing, and my circle is very tiny, it is because things are still undeveloped in me. I firmly believe that treating people as human beings and not things to promote to.
I have always had a "squeamish" towards the idea of opening a business for a customer-base. Whilst this is fine for restaurants, retail and grocery stores, imagine if an entity in any of these used the above approach? They would redefine their industries (as WA has the IM Training Industry!)
I have chosen this model but really had not given a thought to the terminology (simple as it is) Thanks for this post and the distinctions it brings out.
The Customer gets service. The Person gets friendship. There's a difference between helping and serving, though much of the marketing world save a few do not differentiate between the two and refer to them interchangeably. Not so!
Only from the best do we get such advice. Mark Joyner (one of my favorite authors) says the same thing in the Simpleology courses (and elsewhere about this exact thing.
James Straw says the same thing.
Steve Little, Sam Crowley, John Cummuta, Kevin Riley, Dave Ramsey...all multi millionaires will tell you the exact same thing.
They unanimously offer their programs holistically...I perhaps twist the usage of this term a bit to express the philosophy that people are not really customers, but people. We are supposed to be a family, and in these entities, one is treated as such.
The result: a wildly adherent following that will defend the causes of the "thought leader."
Another thing I like about this approach:
These excellent leaders know to positively influence whereas looking at one's clients as "customers" usually implies having to use persuasion techniques.
Influence is far more powerful than persuasion.
In the first, there the followers are behind the leader in every way and the best of relationships in marketing it can be.
The second do not enjoy timely existence as do the first.
I definitely choose K&C's method of madness here. The proof is in the pudding.
Though I, myself, have not succeeded in anything marketing, and my circle is very tiny, it is because things are still undeveloped in me. I firmly believe that treating people as human beings and not things to promote to.
I have always had a "squeamish" towards the idea of opening a business for a customer-base. Whilst this is fine for restaurants, retail and grocery stores, imagine if an entity in any of these used the above approach? They would redefine their industries (as WA has the IM Training Industry!)
I have chosen this model but really had not given a thought to the terminology (simple as it is) Thanks for this post and the distinctions it brings out.
Sielke
Premium
Kyle, great post. It's one of the reasons why I am still here. I've seen and researched many programs that make outrageous claims. I feel Wealthy Affiliate isn't a make money scam, it's a collection of tutorials and members that really teach how the internet marketing business works. Keep up the good work and take a stand. I'll be behind you and I'm sure all the rest of WA will be as well.
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